The Salty Peanut Gallery

Radio talk show host, Steve Deace (sounds like ace), talks about local news and issues during afternoon drive time on middle America’s powerhouse Newsradio 1040 WHO in Des Moines, Iowa. Steve is a devout Christian, unashamedly outspoken about Jesus Christ and matters of faith on his three hour daily show “Deace in the Afternoon”. Recently Steve had an opportunity to speak with Tom Minnery, long-time political director of Focus on the Family. During their conversation a heated debate ensued that raised what I think are some profound issues regarding the state of conservatism in America and the so called religious right. You can listen to the twenty-eight minute interview in its entirety via podcast.

To be fair, Mr. Minnery agreed to do the interview with the understanding that he would be discussing the legacy of Dr. James Dobson, which technically speaking he did do. But clearly Steve had a larger agenda, one that in the end left Minnery declaring it an “ambush interview”. Steve explains:

“For almost two years now, this program has been attempting to get those of you that consider yourselves social conservatives, and that’s a big chunk of our audience, answers to some lingering questions from this last election cycle, questions that if we don’t answer I fear we might get fooled again the next time the process comes around.”

And ask he did. Steve played a sound byte of Dr. Dobson making a public pledge in 1990 shortly after stepping into the world of public policy. Dobson stated:

“I have determined that for the rest of my life, however long God let’s me live on this earth, I will never cast one vote for any man or woman who would kill one innocent baby.”

Steve’s question for Minnery: “Did Dr. Dobson violate his heroic 1990 pledge by supporting Mr. McCain?”

Minnery’s responce: “Well in essence he did, Steve, but let’s go back to that 1990 statement, and that is Dr. Dobson’s emotional principled position.

What we both have seen over the years is that there are a number of politicians who will be pro life for ninety-nine percent of unborn life, but they will not… they will not…uh oppose abortion in cases of rape and incest, which have about one percent of all abortions as a result of all rape and incest pregnancies. So the question comes, is ninety-nine percent good enough for a politician or because he is not…uh he is not going to go for that one percent is he insufficient? And if we don’t vote for that ninety-nine percenter then we allow the other guy who’s an out-and-out liberal who will vote for abortion in all one hundred percent of cases to be elected.”

Now on the one hand that sounds reasonable from a strictly political perspective. I mean after all, isn’t the political process all about compromise anyway? We don’t ever get everything we want, that’s the nature of the process. So, therefore, doesn’t it seem prudent to settle for whatever we can get? That seems to have been the approach that Minnery has been advocating. But the real question is, has it been affective? Not according to Dr. James Dobson himself. In another sound byte Dobson is heard giving his farewell address during his retirement from “Focus on the Family”. Here’s more of what he had to say:

“The battles that we fought in the 80’s now, we were victorious in many of those conflicts with the culture, trying to defend righteousness, trying to defend the unborn child, trying to preserve the…the dignity of the family and the definition of marriage. We’ve fought all those battles, and…and really it was at a holding action. And now we are absolutely awash in evil and the battle is still to be waged and we are right now in the most discouraging period of that long conflict. Humanly speaking we can say that we have lost all those battles.”

With that thought in mind this is the point that Steve is trying to make:

I’m 36 years old. I don’t want to sit here in 30 years and look at the fact that we fought a long, long culture war and in fact the government is bigger than it’s ever been, judges are more powerful than they’ve ever been, the schools are more pagan than they’ve ever been, the culture’s more ungodly then its ever been, which Dr. Dobson himself said in his farewell address. I’m simply assreting maybe the premise here is flawed. Maybe the premise isn’t that we use the political system as much as we honor the Word of God, we obey God and not man, we do what is righteous, period, and we let a sovereign God of the universe work out His sovereignty through our faithfulness. That’s all that I’m saying, Tom. Is that not true? Is that not the biblical mandate?

Minnery responds:

“We’re in a deep well. We can’t jump out of that well in one leap as you seem to be suggesting. We have to claw our way slowly out of this well by educating, by making progress, by convincing more and more people and slowly we are winning that one, Steve. More and more surveys show that predominantly people are pro life. They’re not pro life one hundred percent, but they’re getting there. They understand the evil of abortion and so we’re making progress toward our goal.”

“The question is how much more evil would it have been had not courageous Christians been in the trenches, working to save every life possible. Steve, there are untold thousands of babies lives that have been saved simply because states have worked themselves toward a pro life position by requiring twenty-four hour waiting periods, by requiring parental consent, by requiring parental notification. This is the work…the hard work of righteousness, Steve. You have to work toward your principle.”

Again valid issues. Have lives been saved? Without question. But has the United States as a nation been turned back to God because of the last thirty years of engaging the culture? Even by Dr. Dobson’s own standards the answer is unequivocally, no. But it’s this next part that really blows my mind. Steve asks:

“Who chooses our leaders? Who does the Bible say chooses our leaders? Do we choose our leaders?”

Minnery replies, “Well in this government we certainly do?”

STOP THE TAPE!

Minnery is clearly unprepared for this question. He hems and haws as if he doesn’t understand the question and then his answer is astounding. Are you kidding me? I’ve got kids in my youth group that know the answer to this question. Do you mean to tell me that the long-time political director of Focus on the Family doesn’t know who the Bible says chooses our leaders? Steve replies:

“This is where there’s an irreconcilable gulf between the two of us, because I believe God’s Word clearly demonstrates, ‘The heart of the king’s in the hand of the Lord. There is no authority,’ Peter says, ‘except that which God has already ordained.’ Okay, I mean…Jesus says…to Pontius Pilot, ‘You have no power except that which comes from above.’ Paul tells the people at the Areopagus at Mars Hill, ‘The God of this universe has determined who will live for how long and where.’ I don’t believe we choose our leaders. I don’t believe our vote is determined…is meant as a Christian to determine an outcome. It is meant to be an act of faithful worship, to say we are going to honor God with our vote regardless of the outcome. Or as John Adams used to say, ‘Duty is ours and outcomes belong to God.’ I don’t believe we’re sovereign down here and I think we’ve been acting like that for a long, long time and now I think we find ourselves more compromised than we’ve ever been before.”

Folks, this is profound. It is ludicrous for us to think that we can somehow bring America back to God through political activism. As syndicated columnist, Cal Thomas and former vice president for the Moral Majority has said,, “If people who call themselves Christians want to see any influence in the culture, then they ought to start following the commands of Jesus and people will be so amazed that they will be attracted to Him. The problem isn’t political. The problem is moral and spiritual.”

Steve Deace ends the podcast with this provoking comment:

“I so want my generation to learn this lesson. And the lesson is that whenever we make our faith a means to an end we’ll end up deciding that ends justify the means.”